Edmon Colomer: «Paco de Lucía, without reading music, solved very difficult problems for classical guitarists»

Although he was not the only conductor who led an orchestra to accompany Paco de Lucía, the name of Edmon Colomer (Barcelona, ​​1951) went down in the history of flamenco for occupying the lectern at the recording of the Concert of Aranjuez which the guitarist recorded in Torrelodones (Madrid). So many years later, this musician still has fond memories of the genius who opened the doors of flamenco music to him and invited him to share an unusual adventure with him.

 

– What did it mean? flamenco for you before you direct The Aranjuez concert?

- flamenco has always been surrounding the life of all Spanish society. Knowing the flamenco and get in touch and become interested in what it means, in the different palos and by the various specialists, of course, this has been part of my training. But, in addition, being a musician, the flamenco I have assimilated it through the works of the great composers who have incorporated it, such as Falla de El amor brujo, The short life, Joys by Roberto Gerhard, which is also a tribute to the flamenco…And so many other works that I have directed and that have, we could say, made me familiar with this phenomenon.

– And the figure of Paco de Lucía, before the opportunity to collaborate with him arose, what did he mean? He was already a very well-known musician in Spain, right? 

– Let's see. Paco de Lucía, at the time we recorded the Concert of Aranjuez, was already an icon. He was the guitarist flamenco par excellence. He was very famous and I knew him, of course I did.

– What there was, however, was a certain reservation on the part of the classical guitar towards what Paco was doing, right? I remember that Segovia, but also Yepes, had made some statements there. Were you aware of that tension that existed between the classical and flamenco guitars, or a certain superiority complex that the classical guitar had over the flamenco?

– I was absolutely aware of it. I remember some statements by Narciso Yepes who described the sound of Paco de Lucía’s guitar as “a very ugly sound” [laughs]. The truth is that yes. There could have been, and in fact there was, a certain superiority complex. Also a certain, I would say, envy. Because, of course, technically Paco de Lucía, without being a music reader as a classical guitarist was, was capable of solving technical problems that were very difficult for classical guitarists to solve. So, yes, there were all these prejudices that in some way damaged the relationship between some of the classical guitarists and Paco de Lucía.

– Did you hear what Paco did before the Concert of Aranjuez with Failure?

- Yes

– And they convinced you?

– When we made the recording, I had not yet heard Paco de Lucía's foray into Manuel de Falla's music. To be honest, I had not heard it before, but I heard it later.

 

«The world flamenco It is a world that has very specific characteristics. A music, we would say, ancestral that seduces and penetrates the human being in a way that many popular musics do not. flamenco has an admirable strength. And I have never thought that the world flamenco should not have any inferiority complex with respect to other worlds and especially the classical world"

 

– And what did you think? 

– Well, I thought it was great, of course [laughs]. Paco de Lucía was a born musician. Regardless of his academic training, it was something that went far beyond the knowledge that can be learned in an academic setting, in a conservatory, in a formal school. He surpassed all of this with his natural ability to understand the music he played and his technical ability to master the guitar. These two elements, the understanding of music, which was something natural, and the technical mastery of the guitar, were the two factors that made it possible for Paco to tackle all kinds of styles, especially those related to flamenco music.

– Do you remember how the contact was made so that you could go with the orchestra to Torrelodones to record the concert? 

– It was one of the most beautiful experiences I have had in my professional life, because he showed up with all humility, ready to collaborate. He had already played the Aranjuez Concerto on tour around the world, in fact, and he could have recorded it with any other orchestra. And instead, he agreed to do it with the Cadaqués orchestra, which at that time, admittedly, was a magnificent orchestra, but it was not an orchestra that was on the international market, as the Orchestre de Paris might have been, for example. So he came with all naturalness, all humility, he let himself be carried away spontaneously, we understood each other very well, he was very respectful with the musicians, but it must be said that we were also respectful with him… The recording really took place in this atmosphere of cordiality, of mutual trust and enthusiasm. We were making music and he was elevating it to the maximum power. Therefore, I only have words of praise for this moment, for this meeting that was so unique.

– Did he make it? Was the call his? 

– No, no, no. It was through a concert agent that he made the proposal to us and that’s how the project came about.

– We don’t know if he had any news about the Cadaqués orchestra? 

– Yes, I’m sure he did, of course. He had already been given some background information, of course. The Cadaqués orchestra had only recently been born and it had been created precisely under the auspices of Alicia de Larrocha and Victoria de los Ángeles. I think it was an important milestone in the birth of orchestras at this time. We are talking about the 90s, around the celebrations of 92…

– Were there many rehearsals beforehand? How do you remember preparing for the concert? 

– The preparation of the concert was very agile. After a personal meeting between Paco and me, in which we tried to agree on how to approach the recording, how he understood the music, the tempos, that is, how fast or slow to play a certain movement… All this happened in a first session. Then we had a single rehearsal with the orchestra and then we went to the recording. It may seem surprising, but Paco had already played the concerto, he knew it thoroughly. The orchestra was made up of the best musicians there were at that time in Europe, and even in America. It was a very, very select orchestra and capable of playing a work like this practically without rehearsal. And this is what happened.

 

«I remember some statements by Narciso Yepes who described the sound of Paco de Lucía's guitar as “a very ugly sound” [laughs]. There was a certain superiority complex. Also a certain envy. Because, of course, technically Paco de Lucía, without being a musical reader like a classical guitarist, was capable of solving technical problems that were very difficult for classical guitarists to solve. Yes, there were prejudices that damaged the relationship between some of the classical guitarists and Paco de Lucía»

 

 

– Had he previously worked with José María Gallardo de Rey? 

– José María Gallardo de Rey helped him organize the concert, but he had done it long before. I had no further contact with José María Gallardo. Paco had done the preliminary work months before because he had to prepare the concert tour that he did all over the world.

– He worked with several orchestras, right? 

– Yes. He toured with the Concierto de Aranjuez with some of the best orchestras in the world. I won’t tell you how many concerts he did because I don’t remember, but I know that he did several concerts with great orchestras. And he always played with different conductors. Some of the best-known conductors. For this reason, it was an honour for us to be asked to make the final recording with him because he could have done it with one of those orchestras and he didn’t. It was a privilege for us.

– As I understand it, I felt that it was music that could sound flamenco, but it was written as classical guitar. I don't know if there was a need to emphasize some aspects so that the flamenco came out stronger.

– It's a good question, but I'll also tell you that it has a simple answer. The content of the music has elements that can fit perfectly with the spirit of some of the palos flamencos. What do I mean by this? That, when this music is placed in the hands of a guitarist, flamenco, in this case Paco de Lucía, because the music without making any changes, without making any additional effort, just because of the type of sound that Paco de Lucía knew how to get out of his guitar, simply because of this fact, was already transformed. In other words, it was already approaching this spirit. flamenco which, in fact, as I said, the music itself already contained from the start. Therefore, there was no need to make any adaptation. It was simply the same ability, the same sound, the same character, the character that he gave to each movement of the music. With this, the music already sounded the way Paco wanted it to sound.

– I also wanted to know if Paco was already familiar with reading music at that time or if it was still something limited to his own notes, to his personal code. 

– No, no, he worked according to his codes. I know that he read very little music, that is, it was not part of his training. But he learned the concert by heart. He built a frame of reference that was, we would say, favorable to him. And then he played the music from memory. In other words, he didn’t read any score, he played it from memory, but he played exactly what Joaquín Rodríguez had written. Exactly. He didn’t make any concessions, no changes.

– Of course, that is something that I once heard José María Gallardo de Rey say, when he said that normally the performers of the concerto take some relief in some way in some passages and that, nevertheless, Paco insisted on doing note by note, not leaving out any. Was that the case? 

– [Laughs] I'm laughing because you just hit the nail on the head, right? Or Gallardo de Rey hit the nail on the head. Classical guitarists, even some of the most famous ones, had to make some adaptations because the technical difficulties are high. There are times when the guitarist is not very good at playing. Concert of Aranjuez It is very technically demanding and not all guitarists, however good they may be, are prepared or have the mechanics to handle these passages. Paco did have these resources, I already told you at the beginning. Technical resources that naturally allowed him to overcome the difficulties of the score, and for this reason Paco did not make any concessions.

 

«Paco de Lucía was a born musician. Regardless of his academic training, it was something that went far beyond the knowledge that can be learned in an academic setting, in a conservatory, in a formal school. He overcame all this with his natural ability to understand the music he played and his technical ability to master the guitar»

 

– I imagine it was also a kind of personal challenge, and he was quite fond of that, right? 

- Of course.

– Then, at the concert, we cannot overlook the fact that Maestro Rodrigo himself was there, right? Was that an added responsibility for everyone? 

– Of course, of course, of course. Maestro Rodrigo was already very old at this time, but I am sure that it was exciting for him to be able to listen to the concert played by Paco de Lucía, although I think or can assume that he had his reservations from a sound and style point of view. It is possible that he also had some reservations, but he did not show them at all, on the contrary. He felt, at least from the experience we had there, happy, and we were happy that he was there too, of course.

– Wherever Paco went, especially in Spain, the theatre was filled with guitarists, and it seems that Paco had a hard time with the nerves of having many colleagues almost, as some say, waiting for him to make a mistake or watching him stumble. Did you feel that pressure? Did you have the feeling that the responsibility could weigh on you? 

– Paco de Lucía was a great artist and like all great artists, he had nerves. They all have them, but they also have the ability to overcome them and pretend that these nerves do not exist. And this was the way I received the message. Paco was apparently calm, very sure of himself, playing the concert. Surely he had nerves, but he knew how to overcome them in front of the public and in front of his musical collaborators, at that time the orchestra and myself. This is the reality. I think we should keep this idea in mind: Paco was, above all, a complete artist, and therefore he knew what had to be done on stage.

– There is a general consensus that Paco de Lucía was far above all his colleagues in the flamenco guitar world, that he was number one, several steps above the next. Everyone agrees with that, but when I ask what that genius, that superiority over the others, consisted of, everyone gives me a different answer. What would you give me? 

– There are many ways to answer, as you have already said. The best way I can think of to define Paco de Lucía and define him in the context in which we find ourselves, recording the Concierto de Aranjuez, I would say that he, apart from his natural talent, was a very rigorous artist. Everything that seemed simple, and that he was able to make seem simple, was the result of a lot of work, the result of a lot of effort and a lot of artistic rigor, and when I say artistic I also include technical. To play well you have to study, you have to prepare well, and I think this was Paco’s best quality: rigor, work done conscientiously and obviously a natural talent, which allowed him to go very far. I won’t say if he was more than others, I’m not going to define myself here, but it did allow him to go very far, that’s the truth.

– Did the professional contact allow you to access the person in some way? I mean, was Paco's human side able to discover him in some way, or was it just that contact from those specific rehearsals?

– Whenever you work with an artist, your personality always comes out and the need to relate to this artist as best as possible is part of the job. I’ll explain it to you in a different way: when you work with an artist you can’t separate the specifically artistic part from the human part, because one leads to the other. Paco, as I told you at the beginning, was a modest artist as a person. He never appeared with any kind of arrogance. On the contrary, he was always ready to collaborate, ready to take advice if necessary, which was hardly necessary… And he was very cordial in his dealings, very cordial and also very spontaneous. He could record with a cigarette in his hand and a small coffee on a table next to him. I found this very nice. This is not usual in our classical field, and it seemed to me an element of interest and sympathy that I valued very much. Paco de Lucía’s human side came out in this short time that we had working together.

 

«This music is placed in the hands of a guitarist flamenco, just because of the type of sound that Paco de Lucía knew how to get out of his guitar, simply because of this fact, he was already transformed. In other words, he was already approaching this spirit flamenco "That the music itself already contained from the start. Therefore, there was no need to make any adaptation. It was simply the same capacity, the same sound, the same character. With this, the music already sounded the way Paco wanted it to sound."

 

 

– Did you keep in touch again after the recording? 

– Well, no, actually. We never had any more contact. I found out about his death some time later, sad news, because it was too soon… And nothing more. The memory of a fleeting but very intense contact has remained until today.

– Did you follow his career in any way? Did you listen to other recordings he made afterwards or did each of you go your own way? 

– Well, I always listened to recordings of Paco before and after, yes, of course. But not of Concert of Aranjuez Because this, as far as I know, is the only one he did. Now I tell you, I'll keep the unique experience of this collaboration. I have a memorable memory and I hope it will be like that forever.

– I also think that for flamenco guitar in general it was, in a certain way, a boost of self-esteem, as also when Paco made his debut at the Teatro Real. He gave the impression that music that was a bit self-conscious flamencoIt's a flight. 

– I would not agree that flamenco guitar has this complex, I don't know if I understand you correctly, of inferiority. No, I think that it is a world that has its characteristics, that has its strength, its autonomy with respect to the classical world and we do not have to place it on different scales of values. Yes, obviously, they are different scales of values, but none is above the other. In other words, the world flamenco It is a world that has very specific characteristics. A music, we would say, ancestral that seduces and penetrates the human being in a way that many popular musics do not. flamenco has an admirable strength, I think that is the word, admirable. And I have never thought that the world flamenco should not have any inferiority complex with respect to other worlds and especially the classical world. They are two different worlds.

– I was referring more to the era of parties for young gentlemen, which perhaps Paco Lucía's father knew more about than Paco himself.

– Well, everything has its context. One thing is the essence and another thing is the social context. The essence of the flamenco It is a treasure. The social context in which it has developed and has been amalgamated with other forms of music, must be analyzed at each moment as it has manifested itself. But what is essentially the flamenco It is a treasure, there is no denying it.

– Have you ever been tempted to collaborate with a guitarist again? flamenco? 

– Yes, I did it with Cañizares. I think we did the Aranjuez concert with Cañizares.

 

«Maestro Rodrigo was already very old at this time, but I am sure that it was exciting for him to be able to listen to the concerto played by Paco de Lucía, although I think or can assume that he had his reservations from a sound and style point of view»

 

– And how was it?

– Good too, of course. But we didn’t make any recordings. It was just a live concert.

– Was everything already well-oiled or did something have to be reconsidered? 

– No, no. It was also very fluid. Well, I remember this many years ago, but I also have very good memories of this collaboration.

– In fact, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that at the concert in Torrelodones, after the concert with the orchestra, Paco came out with Cañizares and his nephew, with José Mari Bandera, to do some songs by themselves. Is that possible? 

– Yes, yes, yes. We already knew each other from that time, well, not just from a sporadic contact, nothing more. There was nothing more than that because at that time my interest was focused on the concert we recorded with Paco. I heard the rest of the program he did with Cañizares, I remember, but we did not have a very specific contact.

– Yes, then Cañizares also messed with Albéniz, right? 

– Yes, yes, but we do not collaborate in that.

– Finally, do you often remember Paco Lucía? Does he come to your mind from time to time?

– I think that I have already given you the answer throughout this interview, right? [laughs] I tell you that this artistic experience is part of my reference experiences. Luckily I have had some very, very deep ones, which are part of my artistic life. Well, one of them is my collaboration with Paco de Lucía.

– If I had to propose a guitarist today flamenco a new adventure of this kind, is there any score that you are particularly looking forward to?

– Well, the classical guitar repertoire draws heavily on popular music, and as happens in the Aranjuez Concert, they contain references to Andalusian music and to flamenco specifically. I don't know, we could perhaps talk about El Burgués gentilhombre by Rodrigo himself, but also about more contemporary works, people who have explored very seriously in the world of flamencoFor example, Feliu Gasull, who has composed works for guitar incorporating this spirit of flamenco music. I can't give more names because I would have to do a bit of research, but of course there are works that could be addressed by guitarists. flamencos being classic.

– This never ends.

– Of course not, especially when the music is good. ♦

 

→  See here the installments of the series THE CHOSEN ONES, by Alejandro Luque, about Paco de Lucía's collaborators.